The Mental Evaluation Unit is actually a thing. It started with the LAPD, since we here in Southern California have a more than adequate supply of disturbed individuals, but it’s been successful enough so that it is being implemented elsewhere as well. For purposes of this comic, the Rochester Police Department has such a unit. The MEU have special Response Teams that handle the tricky job of dealing with people like Hayes and getting them into facilities that are equipped for their needs. Hopefully not Arkham Asylum.
Back-To-School Vote Incentive!
More below!
Bobservations
Your New Target
With this page the rationale behind the episode title becomes fairly clear. Probably everyone is familiar with the only-semi-joking phrase “No good deed goes unpunished.” The original phrase, of course, was: “No good deed goes unrewarded” — with the implication that doing a good deed brings a positive response, even if it is only your own satisfaction. However, a rapid Googling shows that people are far more familiar with the darker idiom. Probably because it so often seems true. How many times did you politely let someone cut in front of you at the grocery line because they only had a few items; only to find out that they were trying to pay by check, use outdated coupons, and wanted to complain about the produce? How many times have you helped someone move, only to be rewarded by lasting back injury?
I know that artists, artisans, and skilled people from all walks of life are often inveigled “as a favor” to do work for free — with the promise of “exposure” and “good money the next time.” But all too often the gig being done as a “good deed” turns into a nightmare of petty changes, the money never appears, and all you get out of it is a reputation of doing work for free. As someone famously said about doing work for “exposure” — “Dude, people die of exposure.”
And here Countdown, having managed to subdue a violent and demented criminal without having to kill him, nor subject an unfortunate little boy to too much additional trauma, is apparently about to be rewarded.
Via .338 Lapua Magnum.
A good deed may be its own reward, but first you have to get out of it alive. Or, in Countdown’s case, at least not more dead.
— Bob out
I want to like this sniper. Please, comic gods, let him have a conscience or sufficient common sense to ignore that order.
I honestly can’t imagine any even marginally sane police sniper obeying that order in this situation even if it came from someone with the authority to give such orders, but from some unknown agent somethingorother who he doesn’t report to? And has never heard of? From a secret department whose name he’s most likely never heard of? Does Scales really think that’s going to work? He must be a lot dumber than I previously thought. Most likely reply is a lengthy series of colorful expletives from the sniper, followed by a much lengthier series of even more colorful expletives from the sniper’s boss who has already told Scales to shove off.
Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of countdown has not been approved.
If I was the sniper I would ask my own boss to confirm the order, if he say not to take the shot I have a good excuse not to take it. Even if Scales technically superior he’s not in the hierarchy directly above the sniper.
Me and my group actually did something similar in a tabletop session, the army was testing combat drugs on us, after two test our sergeant told us to refuse to follow the scientist, who technically outranked him. We followed his orders. It went alright, we just had to prove he had been right afterward.
There is the question of constitutional legality. Feds have to be invited by the local law enforcement to participate alongside any investigation or police action. The feds are NOT the superior, its the local Sheriff who has the highest law enforcement powers.
5 bucks says he does one better by firing, missing the shot on purpose, then telling Scales there to fuck off.
Long gun has received an illegal request to clear weapon operationally from an unkown and unidentified not on site federal agent. Long gun respectfully requests an elder of the blue coat council to intervene.
I was going to say that how can he justify shooting him seeing as he isn’t armed which is what I thought constituted doing that sort of action but then………if this was the real world then just having a thought of “well I thought he was or constituted a threat” seems to do it.
Did I miss something? When did he officially name himself Countdown and more pertinently, who even knows he named himself that? So far as I remember, almost nobody knows he even exists yet.
He’s been on the news already and people gave him the nickname.
Even if the sniper was considering taking the shot he can’t because it would cause the purp to fall on his head from several feet up, because countdown is holding the other end of the sheet. So they better hurry because countdown can’t have that much time left.
The other end of the sheet is actually tied off on the radiator just inside the window.
So as far as Washburn knows, taking the shot causes a probably fatal fall (since what’s his name is hanging head down).
A lot of the points already touched on; Not an imminent threat, not armed, order coming from outside Long Guns chain of command.. I really hope the next page is the on site commander jumping down Agent Scales throat while Long Gun tells him to F off.
Yeah, plus I’m pretty sure if he shoots Countdown the criminal will be dropped from the window without anything to land on…
Bob said above that the sheet’s tied off at the radiator inside the window. But Washburn can’t see that, so as far as he knows, your point still stands.
Her. I believe.
I remembered incorrectly.
I thought we had closed all the mental institutes as being “inhumane” and that’s why 1/3(?) of current prison inmates are those that should be in such institutes?
There are psych wards in hospitals now, where people can get treated. But, if you’re in a state like mine (WA), the chronic shortage of psych beds forces many people into prisons anyways.
Also note: the old mental asylums functioned as prisons for the mentally ill, often with horrendous conditions. That’s why they were shut down.
Hi! I’m a mental health therapy technician in Oregon. Oregon is one of the leading standards of mental health in the US. I understand where the stigma of being “inhumane” comes from, but I can’t ever see state and private sector homes, or even mental hospitals, ever closing. It’s what me and my peers call “job security.” There’s always going to be a need for mental health.
Heck, the only reason Fairview Training Center shut down was because the state government was only allowed literally 100 years of ownership.
Here’s an advertisement from 1959 that I got to watch after one of my training sessions in the central office: https://vimeo.com/365508
We’ve come a long way since then, and now operate out of several homes up and down the I5 corridor.
Thanks for the sound off.
Hey, could you Oregonians take over mental health care in your northern neighbor, Washington? Because we’re doing an atrocious job.
Also, I shouldn’t have used “shut down”. Some have certainly been shut down, but the rest were reformed.
Rycan, try an old game: Follow the Money. Closing down the major state mental hospitals began over 40 years ago. Major propaganda efforts to paint the mental institutions in a poor light, often using outdated information of previously existing conditions, were prominent, including the movie One Flew Over the Coocoo’s Nest. The subsequent closings of many of the largest institutions in the country lead to many patients being sent to either smaller group homes or being placed back in the public with instructions to stay medicated. That lead to many of them coming back to state care as prison inmates. With somewhat altered care provisions. I worked at Rivers State Prison in Milledgeville, GA. It was formerly part of Central State Hospital. CSH used to be the world’s largest mental institution. Now there are perhaps two hundred of the very worst cases left, with the prison system now housing many of those who would have formerly been patients. Who profited?
What the movie may not have made clear(I’ve never seen it) was that the conditions depicted in the story were those apparent in an asylum in the 1950’s. This is according to the introduction of the 40th Anniversary Edition of the novel(Which I consider the definitive version of the book) in which the author expanded on a period in which he himself worked in one such asylum. This version of the book also has art by him.
Why not compare the conditions found in said institutions between real life 1500s, 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, 1900s and each successive decade afterwards. Then use not only “One flew over the cookoo’s nest,” “Rain Man” and “Sucker Punch” for comparisons.
Psh! He ain’t gonna do it! Right?
…
And I’m really glad that more police departments are employing mental health specialists. As a direct caregiver myself, I find the treatment of the mentally and developmentally disabled individuals by the police to be unforgivable.
There was one case here in Portland, Oregon, where a man was cutting and stabbing himself in a park with a 2-inch blade. A cop shot him. My coworkers and I unanimously agreed that the police had no idea what they were doing, as any one of us could have disarmed him or even verbally deescalated him.
Another incident that happened in our agency was when one of our homes dialed 911 because a client was having a seizure. I don’t know what the dispatcher told police, but a dozen officers showed up, and their leader yelled, “OKAY BOYS! LIGHT’EM UP!” And they went in with tasers armed. (Fortunately nobody was hurt.)
Incidents like that have motivated police to work more closely with mental health agencies. Except Arkham. That would be a terrible idea.
I’ve got more stories, but I’d be here all day ^_^;
Law enforcement officers are trained for one eventuality. Unless police departments are going to have a dual major police academy/criminal justice and mental health counselor/EMT psychologist as a ranked officer to assist in calling the shots, then it is unfortunate that officers have to use deadly reprisals instead of other deterrents.
“it is unfortunate that officers have to use deadly reprisals instead of other deterrents.”
No, wrong. There is no “have to” when it comes to using tasers against an innocent person who’s simply having a damned seizure.
And it sounds like you’re implying that police officers are only trained to kill. Bullshit. I’m no officer, but I would think that verbal deescalation is the first thing you’d learn before firearms training. A man cutting on himself with a 2-inch blade? That does not constitute lethal force in any reality.
Hell, shouldn’t police be trained in non-lethal, unarmed combat? That could probably save a hell of a lot of lives.
You’re talking about the way things SHOULD be, what’s moral. mR. Blue is talking about the way things actually are today, and sadly, he’s reasonably accurate for most cases.
” mR. Blue is talking about the way things actually are today, and sadly, he’s reasonably accurate for most cases.”
Indeed he is accurate, for LEOs trained first and foremost to confront people in the Drug War. Sadly, *that* is the standard that has crept into prominence in the last 50 years. Portland has tried community policing, and made it work in those portions of town where the drug war is not prominent. In those areas of Portland where the drug war is the majority of police activity, or even a large percentage of it, my 40 years residence in Portland showed me it failed.
When you are making war on a large enough portion of the population you supposedly are trying to protect, paramilitary police become more and more military in their responses, and *assume* a contact will result in combat.
This is going to sound silly, but is there actually an Arkham asylum?
I know that’s where DC comics and the associated movies puts their nutcases, but is there an actual place in the real world with that name?
If there is, I’d suggest changing the name.
I don’t think there is… I’d look it up on Google if you want a more definitive answer.
I did google it.
very revealing.
Really? I’mma have to check this out, too! o_O
The order given to the sniper has so many problems with it, that I can’t possibly see it as being obeyed. First off, there’s all the problems that other people raised, such as the order coming from someone the sniper (Washburn) doesn’t even know, who’s outside Washburn’s chain of command, and who it’s doubtful even has the authority to give the order. Then there’s the other concerns raised about how Countdown is not armed, and not an imminent threat to any officers or innocents. Then there’s the moral, which is that Countdown is a hero who just saved a kid’s life, and shooting him would be unforgivable. And then there’s the legal; in the military a soldier (marine, etc.) can refuse to obey an illegal order, even one issued from a direct superior; I imagine there’s something similar for police. And in this case, I highly doubt that the order for Washburn to shoot Countdown is legal, the main reasons being (as previously mentioned) that Countdown is unarmed and not a threat to any officers or innocents, and also not even (reasonably or unreasonably) perceived as a threat by Washburn. For Washburn to shoot Countdown here would count as attempted murder (or actual if the shot killed Countdown), or attempted manslaughter at best.
The other major problem with shooting Countdown would be the extremely bad press such an act would garner. If the police shot a hero like this, people would be out for blood. And if word got out who ordered it (Scales), there would be severe public pressure to have Scales punished severely. Such an order being given by Agent Scales shows extremely poor judgement and foresight, and that Agent Scales should be removed from duty immediately.
TLDR: Washburn would be fully justified, morally, legally, and chain of command wise to refuse Agent Scale’s order, preferably with a select choice of words telling Scales where to put that order.
On the part of the PR, Countdown tends to be self cleaning anyway. As they already figured out.
But what is Scales hoping to accomplish in the first place?
Shooting CD would serve no purpose. Except from really far fetched stuff like “look who gets delivered into hospital with sniper rifle wound anywhere in the country”.
But people that have freaking teleport tech of course have a way of solving any likely wounds like this.
The only way I can imagine Washburn pulling that trigger is if Scales blackmailed him, or if we all read Washburn wrong.
“But what is Scales hoping to accomplish in the first place?”
UD3, or a faction of it which Scales is a member of, is *terrified* that someone can teleport into almost *any* identifiable volume, and then leave without a trace. This ability would be a devastating espionage or assassination weapon. The capability is a threat to political hierarchies everywhere.
So, piss off said unstoppable-teleport-capable entity by shooting their agent/employee? Capture him for interrogation, sure, but kill him? Not very smart. I would suspect that this bonehead move is something Scales thought up on his own without approval from higher up.
You are correct on the strategic reasoning. In the midst of combat, however, attention can get over-focused, as if there is nothing but you and your opponent, down in the pit.
Correct again that Scales would think this maneuver up on his own, being over-focused. For him, CD himself *is* the opponent, not just the operative of a group. Scales and his fellows are people used to getting what they want, and CD is flushing that down the toilet, in person. Hierarchs are not comfortable with threats to hierarchy in general. Just ask a school teacher union member about getting their administrators off their backs by dissolving that hierarchy and allowing teachers to attract students individually, as is now happening anyway, on a small scale.
The Scales of justice have tipped in Max’s favour it seems.
Lil useless captain’s about to have his ego thrown in a blender.
Also, the sniper scope feed may have already been hacked, along with the frequencies that they’re operating on.
Oh, they will SO be going over the scope footage frame by frame. UD3 I mean. The PD will find their record of the event will have been deleted from their drives.
There is no Division 6.
Then walk over the ridge next to their ford pos.
So my question after all the commentary is this. Will “Scales” be quickly and forcefully remanded into custody with appropriate charges being laid or will the standard trope of “following orders” and the special agents are untouchable be followed.
Me? I really want to see the Nuremberg/Vietnam principles put to the test and have a commander answer for giving an illegal and immoral order.
There are no appropriate charges. While he’s exceeding the limits of his authority, he is not doing something a police official would be charged for.
That may be true and has been true in places like Spain and Chile as well as a few other republics, but is this something that should be true?
It’s a secret organization – even though its existence may be known to some, everything else it does is probably classified or similar. Scales? No, we’ve never had an Agent by that name here. Sorry, you must be mistaken. What, you want to see our personnel files? No, those are highly classified.
I have no definite knowledge of this but I would like to think police sniper always have discretion on taking a shot or not. Again I no fact to point to but I suspect trying to use a policeman as an assassin isn’t going to work. “Kill him” “Why?” “I say so” yeah no, not seeing it.
On the plus side, I doubt Washburn has a .338 rifle. Most SWAT teams use something like a Remington 700 in .308/7.62 since they’re usually operating in urban environments with shorter sight lines. .338 is too much gun for an urban jobbie like this one. Also, I’ve noticed a lot more American units prefer to have a .50 for longer range work because of its dual use anti-personnel/materiel capabilities. A .338 has a similar range profile to the .50 but less punch at the other end. For a shot at less than 100 meters like this, I wouldn’t even be surprised if Washburn had a .223/5.56.
I think I should tell you.
Every time I access this site, my anti-virus blocks it saying it’s reported to induce viruses.
Your anti-virus feels the comic is too violent.
Seriously, the site is just WordPress with Comic Easel, and we only use ads from Google Adsense and Project Wonderful. Nothing shady. It may be getting a false positive from the Statcounter plugin. We actually pay for ours because we find it useful (and there are no ads) but the free version has caused problems on some sites by running shady ads. Just to be sure I ran the site through both Sitechecker and Webinspector and it turned up clean.
I just thought I’d tell you.
I’m studying network security in college right now (graduate with a AD next semester… YEA).
I have become aware there are many ways for viruses (and MUCH worse) to be introduced without a site-owner’s knowledge.
Is no one going to mention Scales’ “negatory”? Do people actually say that in legitimate comm chatter? Not only is it longer to say (4 syllables) than just “negative” (3 syllables), It just sounds so…undisciplined and “slang-y.”
yes, they do say it quite a bit. The main reason is they are taught (actually grilled and grilled and grilled) to say it due to the unmistakable sound of it.
Supposedly, “Negative” can be mistaken for “Affirmative” during a stressful situation. I kinda think anyone under THAT much stress wouldn’t be listening to some tiny voice in his headphones.
Washburn wouldn’t take the shot but Scales would, and Scales is in UD3 for a reason. Think on it.
While I sympathize with your need for a break, you kinda left us with a “perp hanger” here…. 😉
I hope you guys are doing fine. It’s been a little while since you’ve updated the page.
In a way, almost too well (at least for Max the artist) – his agent double-booked him on some huge commercial assignments. We’re likely to be sporadic in updates until he digs himself out again.
Great! Thank you for updating the page as well.
Pretty much everything I could say has already been said. I’d like to put it together, though.
One: modern “Law Enforcement Officers” are indeed poorly trained. And by that I mean they’re taught to establish control of the situation right from the start. To go in aggressively, intimidate everyone, establish their authority… and of course that kind of confrontational behavior invariably results in… well, what we see in the news. It’s a far cry from what they used to be taught as “Peace Officers.” Tom Billings pointed out how much more effective that is.
Two: police have indeed gotten away with murder. Especially at the federal level; there are still those who remember the “Ruby Ridge” incident where a mother was shot in the head while holding her child by a sniper, after previous shootouts resulting in the death of local police officers, a teenager, and a dog (and for those who’d comment on the political views of the family in question: I’m Jewish, I’m one of the first people they’d scorn on principles. But their racist ideology didn’t justify what happened). So if Washburn DID take the shot… it’s unlikely he would suffer for it.
Three: I highly doubt Washburn will take the shot. He’s looking at an actual costumed superhero who just saved a kid and took down the perp without killing said perp. The ONLY way that Scales can hope to persuade Washburn is by loudly and repeatedly screaming at him “TAKE THE SHOT! TAKE THE SHOT!” and hoping that Washburn will follow questionable orders repeatedly screamed by a putative authority figure (i.e. the Milgram Experiment). However, Milgram himself noted that the likelihood of obedience declined in direct proportion to lack proximity (with only a scant minority obeying orders relayed over the phone). And in this case it’s not even a “stranger” being targeted. Countdown has now established himself as an ally. This would literally be a backstab of a comrade in arms. I do not think Washburn will comply.